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⧖ @christineburns@mastodon.greenWell! After years of trying to unearth the details I've finally found the parish birth record for my paternal great great grandfather James Byrne, born 20th August 1828 in Myshall, Co. Carlow Ireland (not Wicklow as I'd previously assumed). The next shock was to find he had been sent to prison for a month in 1848 for 'Hiding in a Haycock' (the precursor to a haystack). Why that was imprisonable isn't clear but the chap sentenced before him was stealing potatoes (this being the great famine)...
...Two years after being released, James married my g-g-grandmother Mary and then six years after that they resurface in Deptford, SE London having their first child (another James) in 1856 (my great grandfather). Interestingly, father and mother married again in 1857 in a London church. Whether they'd lost the record of their Irish marriage or it simply wasn't accepted i guess there was some need to make the marriage official for the baby's sake. They then had another five children.
These new details reopen the question of whether I would have enough heritage for an Irish passport. If great grandfather James had been born six years sooner in Ireland it would certainly be the case. Anyway this is the thing with family research: you never know when you'll find something new. I first started researching fifteen years ago and it's taken till now to narrow the date of James and Mary's emigration to England to just six years. Next: Can i find their date of passage?
@christineburns having a grandparent born on the Island of Ireland (i.e, including the 6 counties) qualifies. Takes work, especially if the paperwork spans five countries -but you get back your right to live abroad.
You are on the way -but you need that grandparent
@christineburns I thought the rule for an Irish passport was simply grandparent born on the island of Ireland? Is there another route? (Asking for my kids as I didn’t get my Irish paperwork done until after they were born, unfortunately)
@zoe The last time I read up on it a great grandparent born in Ireland was the official limit. That's why great grandfather James (1856) was the focus of attention. However, since his birth was clearly registered in Deptford that raised the question of whether his Mum was carrying him at the time they embarked for England, which might make a case for pleading. I can also name ALL the Corrs and that should count!
@christineburns @zoe It's parents or grandparents, but not great-grandparents. See https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/
@christineburns @zoe Evn if it didn't work out as hoped, I hope that there is some reward in having filed a gap in your family tree. It's good to know where you come from.
I too have ancestry from down that way, mostly on the Wicklow side of the county border, where my Hugenot ancestors did well for a few centuries, in a strong farmer way. Sounds like Janes Byrne had a tougher deal, but maybe you & Olga can enact one of my favourite songs, and Follow Him Up to Carlow https://youtu.be/tvECtlJQ4dU
@2legged @zoe To be clear, the family tree is the prime project, which i've added to at a leisurely pace for fifteen years. The passport was just a whimsical thought given brief new life. I did visit Wicklow and drove right down the coast seeing, Wexford, Waterford and Cork in 2023 but, yes, if i return this year then i shall definitely visit Myshall and the rest of Co. Carlow. I did the N and NW coast last year so returning to south of Dublin makes sense.
@christineburns @zoe The possibility of being conceived in Ireland but born elsewhere might have had some potential use before the repeal in 2018 of the 8th Amendment (the evil anti-abortion amendment passed in 1983). Long long shot, but maybe arguable by a brave barrister.
But with the 8th mercifully gone and buried, no chance. Born means born.
@christineburns What’s this? I have a great grand mother Grace O’Reily and assumed I had been ruled out!
@cyberspice We are. I stand corrected.
@christineburns Interesting though about the second marriage. I've got Scottish ancestors who left the auld country and married in Lancashire. Since I have very other little info on them (not even place of birth), I have wondered if it wasn't a second wedding to placate the English. I suppose I could try searching for it, but of course they have fairly common names... one being Byrne!
@anarchic_teapot To narrow this down required coming at the problem from multiple angles. A DNA match followed by careful comparison of family history found a second cousin (i.e. someone also descended from James and Mary) and then it was a case of filling in siblings down the line so as to narrow down census records with such a common name. Then the 1828 birth registration just suddenly popped out whilst i was casually fishing up census records. I literally found it when not looking!